Posts by Jonathan Drake

238

Another mass shooting, three or four hours ago.

by James Mixon in

san bernardino california.

up to 12 people have been killed.. the center a private non-profit agency that assists people with developmental.

disabilities.

Jonathan Drake

I believe what they need is better laws not out right bans.

in America we once had prohibition, a period of time where alcohol was banned. It's what led to the rise of the mob and organized crime.

if you ban guns it's only going to create an atmosphere where that can happen again IMO. The crimes being committed by people with guns are systemic of other issues in society - not the availability of guns.

take this latest issue. What ultimately caused this shooting? It wasn't the gun, it was the ludicrous religion that for some reason is tolerated and protected in society that did this.

The questions being asked are all wrong. It's not why aren't we banning guns, it's why aren't we dealing with religions that are divisive? Why aren't we doing better to provide jobs and fight unemployment and poverty?

We definitely need better gun laws. But these shootings are not happening because people can get guns.

238

Another mass shooting, three or four hours ago.

by James Mixon in

san bernardino california.

up to 12 people have been killed.. the center a private non-profit agency that assists people with developmental.

disabilities.

Jonathan Drake

cappytan, that's the same thing that is said every time something like this happens. Ban forks, ban cars. Why not bring something constructive to the discussion? If it were up to you, nothing would ever be done about it?

Cap is right tho. I don't like that he is right anymore than you. I wish guns could be made illegal but that's just not realistic.

think it through. They outlaw guns, now how do they round them up? My uncle once said he'd just bury them someplace for when he needed them. How could they ever get them all? The government I mean.

you know they can't.

72

CEDARS (Again) Is it really about religious beliefs?

by Listener in

jw
friends

john cedars has posted his latest blog "the trouble with apostates (and why it shouldn't put you off becoming one)".

i acknowledge that he is entitled to his opionin just as we are ours but i am disappointed in some of his comments.. at this stage i'll try to be objective about it.

he is defending his own position after all.. what bothers me most is his comments about athiests and christians which he seems to identify as being in conflict with each other.

Jonathan Drake

I'm probably going to be absolutely reamed for this

Surely not cap, for shame! This is a support community for current and former Jehovah's witnesses. How could you possibly think you'd be reamed?

29

Impact of the Royal Commission of Inquiry on JW policies and procedures

by steve2 in

the royal commission is not yet over.

the summary of findings on jws is not the end of the story.

the legal process is unfolding and the only open question is the extent to which jw organization in australia will be legally mandated to change its policies and procedures on child sexual abuse.. (on the question of shunning those who leave, the commission is well intended but has strayed beyond its legal brief.

Jonathan Drake

Personally I feel the best case scenario we should aim for, for the moment, is the negative PR.

make sure as many JWs as possible see what's happening and know how terrible this organization has been and continues to be in their treatment of this inquiry.

Beyond that, I feel there is a danger in putting to much hope or stock in any outcome. If the exJW community starts hyping about the outcome and the real authority steps in and guts the recommendations or completely acquits the organization - then not only will the Watchtower flout this as a victory, not only will active JWs throw it in your face, but freshly questioning JWs may shut down all doubt because God has "clearly helped his people."

As much as I hope for Watchtower to get shredded, I think focusing on the moment, and showing all these terrible things they've said on camera and in writing is the best thin we can do. This way regardless of the outcome, it doesn't change the horrendous things they've said and the outright lies every witness will be able to clearly see.

I by no means intend to deflate your topic at all, I just felt I wanted to say this regarding the endgame. Watchtower may by all means get off completely free and change absolutely nothing.

60

Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.

seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.

they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.

Jonathan Drake

I just want to encourage everyone in this thread as well to email the Royal comission with any evidence from the Watchtowers own publications that shows any part of their reply to be untrue.

I've sent them an email about why their response regarding shunning is an outright lie, please anyone who is willing do likewise on any point you choose to address their lies. Include citations to their publications as to why it's a lie. The email I've used to communicate with the ARC is:

contact@childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au

60

Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.

seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.

they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.

Jonathan Drake

I don't think the RC should get into biblical interpretation. Are they going to question the beliefs of the Catholic Church for instance? If not then the WTS could claim they have been treated differently and thus unfairly

I will add that I 100% agree with Simon here. By going into scripture like this the ARC has given them a way out. Just like debating with any believer, they will (and they did) come back with, "your interpretation is wrong mine is right." The ARC can't just say, "no YOURE wrong," because this is a theological battle now. In the current world climate regarding religious beliefs nobody gets to say who is right or wrong.

The only hope that will allow these particular findings to stand is that the ARC could easily clarify their findings to explain their meaning as, "not only is there no reasonable way to conclude shunning is scriptural but it is a violation of human rights and a cruelty and cannot continue." This I think was their intention, but I think it should have been done without bringing scripture into it.

60

Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.

seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.

they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.

Jonathan Drake

9.304 The suggested finding wrongly assumes a broad obligation upon Jehovah’s Witnesses “to protect children in the community” but fails to identify how such an obligation exis

I couldn't be more pleased that Watchtower said this. I cannot wait for the RC to lambast them for it and I am posting it to Facebook right now.

75

Australian Royal Commission Findings released

by Mephis in

will just post the general findings by counsel for the commission (angus stewart) - case specific ones are prior to them.

in short, absolutely damning.. not been through every submission myself yet.

available for download here: http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.aspx.

Jonathan Drake

My immediate thought:

according to their findings, Geoffrey Jackson lied under oath and maliciously tried to misdirect the comission. As i understand, there are steep penalties for this; will they seek a variable of penalty for this infraction?

15

Could trends and group think be evidence of a form of telepathy?

by EndofMysteries in

i was thinking the other day about trends.

think back over the decades and how generally the majority of people will feel or like or dislike the same things.

people comment how awful and ugly things that trended in the past were.

Jonathan Drake

Read, "The Tipping Point" by Malcolme Gladwell.

12

If the elders were abused sexually this problem would have been taken care of long time ago.

by Still Totally ADD in

jw
friends

i feel the real problem with the wt cult concerning child abuse is it happens to children not adult men.

notice i didn't say adult women because they don't care about adult women either.

i remember a c.o.

Jonathan Drake

This is all wrong.

First of all, suggesting it'd be better if someone was sexually abused is disgusting.

secondly, statistics have shown for years that a person who is sexually abused is more likely to be come a sexual predator. I have read that in many places.

boo on this topic for so many reasons.

edited to add: yes I did read the op, being a victim doesn't change what I stated. Tho I do wish that hasn't happened to you. Thought I should add this because my post seemed cold hearted.